THE REBEL By Ross Mockeridge (preface by David Mitchell) Martin Clarke was a martial art rebel but unlike most rebels, this man always had and has a great deal of cred. He successfully challenged the system of oligarchies that once ran British martial arts (The British Judo Association and my own Martial Arts Commission) and emerged as a credible and creative man. Although for many years Martin and I were in a sort of uneasy relationship, I have never faltered in my admiration for this very tough martial artist. I am delighted to include this interview and grateful to Ross Mockeridge for recording and transcribing it.

M.C.: I'm a 7th dan judo, 6th dan jiu jitsu, 6th degree Combat Sombo and Grand master in sombo wrestling!

R.M.: How old were you when you first began martial arts?

M.C.: I was five years old and my father trained me until the age of twenty. After that I took responsibility for my own training though after my parents, the late Geoff Gleason (9th dan) was the biggest influence in my life. He was undoubtedly one the best martial art philosophers this country has known. Geoff helped found the British Association of National Coaches in the 70's and this was the forerunner of the National Coaching Foundation.

R.M.: When did you begin your competition career?

M.C.: I didn't compete much before the age of sixteen. There were very few competitions for juniors in those days and my father was the first to run children's tournaments. I competed in the three he organised winning gold, silver and bronze medals respectively.

R.M.: Which do you consider your major competition achievements?

M.C.: Obviously the World Sombo Wrestling silver and the BJMC All-England gold for judo. In 1967 when I was aged seventeen, I won the gold medal at a tournament. I was only a brown belt at the time and had to defeat a 3rd dan!

R.M.: What was the most special moment in your career as a fighter?

M.C.: Winning the BJMC National Trials at Crystal Palace in 1978! That qualified me for the British Olympic judo squad.

R.M.: You built a reputation as an aggressive fighter. Looking back, do you feel this was justified?

M.C.: As a contestant, yes, though it has since gone on to haunt me. The aggressive, win-at-all-costs, self-opinionated and arrogant Martin of the 70's is not the same person of the 90's. I'm no longer aggressive.... The people I trained with couldn't distinguish between a bully and someone who just trained hard, worked hard and wanted to be the best they could be. My reputation (unjustified I might add!) was that of a bully who enjoyed smashing people into the mats. Those who remember me from those days will recall that I mostly won my matches by ippon throws, my favourite being uchi mata (inner thigh throw).

Judo at that time was very much dominated by the 'Kata and Theory' brigade and if anything competitors, to some degree, were classified as a hindrance. I was with the British Judo Council and I remained a brown belt because I saw no need to become a black belt. I was beating most black belts on a regular basis but the thought of having to do kata and theory was horrifying! After a lot of persuasion, I took my 1st dan at the age of 21 and reached my 4th dan by 24. I've grown up a lot since then and now appreciate the performance and dedication of people who perform kata across all martial arts.

R.M.: It surprises me that as a recognised master of jiu jitsu, you seem to display little enthusiasm for this art. Why is this?

M.C.: Over the years, I've drifted away from jiu jitsu mainly because of the fools who are in it, though I practise something called Kano Jiu Jitsu - which is basically a self-defence judo. I'm pleased to see that some jiu jitsu coaches are now giving back credibility to jiu jitsu, though there is still a long way to go!

R.M.: I understand that you won a silver medal in a world jiu jitsu competition?

M.C.: Yes that was in Canada during 1984. I was expecting something along the line of the Ultimate Fight but in reality it was only another form of semi-contact karate. I was lucky because the IBF had been doing that type of competition for years so I was familiar with it. The only real thing I gained from this championships was the friendship I began with Bill Gill (7th dan).

R.M.: How did you first hear about Sombo wrestling?

M.C.: I tried freestyle wrestling and entered a couple of Southern Area Championships. That's where I heard about Sombo wrestling. The British Amateur Wrestling Association managed sombo in those days and all the championships were held 'oop north'! Sombo was administered by two well-known wrestling figures - Rob Payne and Richard Barraclough.

Sombo is very much a throwing style and high throws such as suplexes, hip throws and shoulder throws are a major part. Hold-downs have been allowed in Sombo wrestling during recent years but when I first started there weren't any hold-downs! Sombo wrestlers try to throw their opponent as hard as they can to finish them and if they don't succeed, then they try for a submission by leg-lock or arm-lock. No other martial art or combat discipline uses leg-locks like a Sombo wrestler!

R.M.: Which do you personally prefer, judo or sombo?

M.C.: In my opinion the competition side of sombo wrestling is far superior to judo competition. Sombo wrestling is a much more open sport and a lot less restrictive than judo - though the philosophy of judo, as laid down by Jigoro Kano, cannot be beaten. Sombo wrestling is an excellent sport but judo is a way of life.

R.M.: Many of your students have won medals at British, European, and World events. How do you produce a champion?

M.C.: The first thing you need is someone who is capable of becoming a champion. I expect a lot from my students and they get a lot back from me. I am a hard taskmaster and am not afraid to tell my students what I think. I believe in treating every student as an individual and not just producing clones. But at the end of the day, it's down to the student whether they succeed or not.

R.M.: Yes, but how do you actually train them, though?

M.C.: I'm sorry to say that there's no magic formula! Everyone's an individual. Some things I do may differ from what other coaches might do. For example, if I'm training a judo player I would get them entering sombo and wrestling competitions to experience different grappling styles. I may get them into weightlifting because that played an important part in my own success (Ed: Martin won Southern Area titles in both power lifting and Olympic lifting) I expect them to be very fit and this fitness can come from a wide range of other sports.

I also don't believe in them having more than one coach. The concept of a young competitor wandering the world's dojos learning one technique from one master and another technique from another master, and so on, is rubbish! However, the coach should try to experience different styles of martial arts which they may be able to include in their programme.

R.M.: Do you feel it is necessary for a coach to have competed?

M.C.: I honestly believe that you cannot coach a competitive sport unless you've been there yourself. That doesn't mean you need to have been all that good but you need to have experienced being out in the contest area all by yourself. A coach who says you don't need to have competed is normally covering up their own inadequacies!

R.M.: To what do you attribute the growing popularity in grappling?

M.C.: Obviously, the reason for this is the Ultimate Fighting circuits. I tried that type of competition fifteen years ago using a system I called 'Shiai Jutsu'.

R.M.: Why didn't you carry it on?

M.C.: I made the mistake of thinking you can amalgamate all the martial arts into one system but all this did was to bastardize and brutalize the martial arts. As someone who embraces the philosophy of Jigoro Kano, I could no longer keep going at it.

R.M.: Does this mean you disapprove of what the Gracie family has been doing?

M.C.: No, on the contrary! I think they have done a great job. They have approached the system in a businesslike manner, but I don't think you can call what they do a martial art in the true sense.

R.M.: Are you saying that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a true martial art?

M.C.: No because I don't know enough about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu to comment. I'm talking about the Ultimate Fighting Competition aspect - which in reality is only fighting.

R.M.: So you don't think the UFC effectively pits different martial arts styles against each other?

M.C.: No, it's just down to the hardest and toughest man on the day.

R.M.: What other wrestling systems have you looked at and how did they help your development?

M.C.: I became involved with Freestyle Wrestling and what I particularly liked about Cornish, Westmoreland and Cumberland wrestling was their small village attitude and in some ways, antiquated approaches. So I tried a couple of my own styles of wrestling at some of the local fetes. One I called Kent Belt Wrestling. Basically, the competitors wore shorts and a judo style belt and scores were awarded for throwing. I tried variations on that theme. On an international basis, I even tried my own jacket wrestling. The jacket was similar to that used in sombo except that the sleeves were cut back to the biceps. The logic behind this was to encourage the non-jacket wrestling people to compete. I also ran some submission fighting. Submission holds are alien to the ethos of most styles of wrestling. I believe I'm right in saying that judo, sombo and submission wrestling are the only amateur styles of wrestling that permit these types of techniques.

R.M.: You introduced a new concept into the IBF called Ring Wrestling. What is this exactly?

M.C.: Some years ago a friend and pupil of mine, Andre Baker, approached me about putting some credibility back into pro-wrestling. Andre holds black belts in judo and combat sombo and has been doing shoot wrestling and submission wrestling for some years. His Hammerlock School of Wrestling is quite famous here in the South of England and for a long time he has been organising pro- wrestling shows. Andre invited me to attend one of his shows and I saw that his wrestlers certainly were good athletes. Andre wanted to design a combat form around the concept and came up with Ring Wrestling, which incorporates all the various styles of wrestling done in the ring.

R.M.: There is also a Ring Wrestling grading system isn't there?

M.C.: Yes, the Ring Wrestling grading system is the self-defence arm of exhibition wrestling. Their gradings are not just choreographed moves. Wrestlers have to actually compete in a ring, using a mixture of shoot wrestling, submission wrestling and kick-boxing.

R.M.: Do Ring Wrestlers still give shows?

M.C.: Yes! We always describe it as an exhibition of Ring Wrestling rather than pro-wrestling.

R.M.: I understand Andre fought a match with Dan Severn in the States?

M.C.: That's right and now Andre and Dan have become good friends. In fact, Dan recently sent Andre a very nice letter congratulating him on becoming involved with a credible body like the IBF and trying to get pro-wrestling a better name.

R.M.: How do you find a good Sombo coach?

M.C.: I would advise anyone interested in sombo to contact the British Sombo Federation - the governing body of the sport in the UK. All reputable sombo wrestlers and combat sombo players are known to the Federation. The federation offers instructors' award scheme and a coaching programme. The instructors' exam is based on demonstration of techniques, safe exercise, knowledge of the rules of sombo wrestling and some practical fighting. Candidates for coaching qualifications must be experienced grapplers, though not necessarily in sombo, We also welcome judo players and amateur wrestlers.

R.M.: What if someone wants to do sombo but has no desire to compete?

M.C.: It isn't essential to enter competitions if you are doing combat sombo - and the same can be said of sombo wrestling. However, I feel that a self-defence system cannot justify its existence by allowing its practitioners only to practise pre-arranged moves. If you classify yourself as a practitioner of a self-defence or combat system then there must be a practical method of testing what you have learned!

R.M.: How do you foresee the development of sombo in Britain?

M.C.: I don't think sombo wrestling will ever be as big as judo though I think combat sombo will take off. In fact, it is probably the fastest growing martial art at in Britain the present time.